Lawyer Ekaterina Ryersen: "In Norway, children are untouchable"
Norway, along with the Netherlands, has recently turned into a "haven of debauchery and vice" in the eyes of ordinary Russians. This was greatly facilitated by the "sensational" statements of the wife of blogger Adagamov and the stories of "Russian wives in Norway" – one allegedly had her children taken away and handed over to a gay couple for abuse, another also had her children taken away and was herself expelled to Russia...
Even the Yandex search engine gives crazy suggestions for the query "in Norway": "30 types of marriage legalized", "marriages between brother and sister allowed", "crying is prohibited by law". Lawyer Ekaterina Ryersen, who has lived in Norway since 1993 and has handled court cases involving child welfare authorities and disputes over parental rights, commented to Rosbalt on the legends and myths circulating on Runet about this country.
– Let's start with the "most terrible" – is it true that children in Norway are taught incest?
– Of course not. Incest, with any person – adult, minor, biological or adopted – is a criminal offense. Sexual relations between lineal relatives (both biological and adopted children are considered such) are prohibited.
– And how would you comment on the following report: "On May 9, 2013, the Norwegian Minister of Children and Gender Equality, Inga Marte Thorkildsen, after attending an incest lesson in the second grade of an elementary school in Presterød (Norway), announced on Norway's national television that she would soon make incest lessons mandatory in all schools in the country. 'In Norway, there is a social tradition – incest, and we must dare to talk about it with children from the first grade,' the minister believes"?
– The minister did not make such a statement and could not have made it. It contradicts the laws of our country, societal norms, and common sense. People in Norway are just as normal as in other countries, loving their children and caring for them. The message you quoted is deliberately mistranslated or misinterpreted information from an article on the website of the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation (NRK) dated May 28, 2013. (In fact, that article was about children being taught how to protect themselves from violence and sexual harassment, so they can defend themselves in time and ask for help – author's note.)
– Here’s another alarming rumor: "In Norway, pedophiles write in newspapers that not all Norwegian coercers of small children into sexual intercourse and violence against them are rapists. They love children, which is not criminal in Norway."
– That's nonsense. Chapter 19 of the Norwegian Criminal Law regulates sexual crimes, in particular those committed against minors. Sexual relations with a person under 16 are punishable by imprisonment. In some cases, the sentence can be up to 21 years when the act is committed by several persons; in a particularly painful and humiliating manner; against children under 10 years old, and repeatedly; when significant harm is caused to the victim's health.
Children are untouchable. Norway is a state governed by the rule of law. The law works, norms are established, boundaries are strictly defined, the police are vigilant, the courts judge. And, by the way, cases under these articles are not those that overwhelm investigative bodies and courts. There are few of them because such crimes are also few.
– They say that your child welfare authorities can take a child away just because a teacher noticed bruises on him – and only then investigate what happened. Is that true?
– The picture is not as simple as it is presented in the media. It goes something like this: someone in the child's environment becomes concerned – they send a signal to the child welfare authorities, who within seven days must decide whether there are grounds for an investigation. The investigation is conducted over 3-6 months: information is gathered from school, kindergarten, doctor, and the family is interviewed. If nothing is found, the case is closed; if there are reasons for concern, then in 9 out of 10 cases, they help solve problems at home. If the problems are very serious, the child may be removed. But that is the most extreme measure, if nothing else helps.
I note that there are no perfect systems, and the human factor is always present. However, as practice shows, no cases are hopeless. Personally, I have had two cases in the last two months that I won – children were returned to their families.
In the case of the Bendikene family, which was covered in the media, the child welfare authorities received support from the Child Welfare Commission (first instance), but then the court considered the appeal and fully supported the family. The decision of the three judges was unanimous. I note that such processes are very difficult to win – only complex cases usually reach court. In most cases, a different solution is found: children live at home, and parents are offered supportive measures, including at home.
In another family's case, the child was removed. However, we eliminated the critical issues in the family's life, and the child welfare service, seeing the changes, itself returned the child three weeks after the commission hearing. I was just about to file a lawsuit in court that day, but fortunately, it wasn't necessary.
– Many videos have been posted on the Internet by Russian mothers who claim that their children are taken away in Norway to be given up for adoption to rich people or gays. Where, in your opinion, does such information come from?
– It's hard for me to answer exactly. I often see that in cases covered by the media, the whole truth is not told, and an objective assessment of the issue is not given. It's clear that journalists are not specialists and sometimes do not know what exactly needs to be double-checked, which moments are particularly important. Therefore, the media coverage is dominated by a subjective point of view of an individual, usually an aggrieved parent.
– Maybe it's a matter of difference in mentalities?
– Of course, the mentalities of Russians and Norwegians are different. Russian society and families have a strict hierarchy. Questions are not asked 'upward', instructions come 'from top to bottom'. Regarding new immigrants, I can say: they still have a very authoritarian approach to raising children. In Norway, the society structure is horizontal. Everyone is more or less equal. This is reflected in the language as well. Norwegian no longer has the formal 'you'. Students and teachers use the informal 'you'. This has its pros and cons. But as a result, children are very spontaneous and, in a positive sense, uninhibited.
I encounter the difference in mentalities particularly sharply in cases related to juvenile justice. I have to thoroughly explain to many parents that a child is also a person who should be addressed respectfully. There are many pedagogical techniques that allow us to do perfectly well without shouting and spanking, not to mention more severe methods. I also have to explain to many immigrants from Russia the difference in communication culture in Norway and the post-Soviet space.
In general, I believe that Norway is an amazing country. Here, if you want, you can achieve everything you want. And you don't need dad, mom, money, connections. For me, for example, it's very comfortable in a society that gives many opportunities and accepts me as I am.
Interviewed by Lena KLIMOVA.
IA «Rosbalt»