5/12/0
– Konstantin Olegovich, the migration problem from CIS countries increasingly resembles a Gordian knot. A colossal effort is spent on untangling it, but with little effect. Maybe we should just cut it, as some politicians suggest: introduce visas?
– You are right that the main problems in the migration sphere are related to citizens of CIS countries. Simply due to their numbers: people from the near abroad make up over 70% of foreigners arriving in Russia. Most come in search of work. On one hand, this is good news. The large flow of labor migrants shows that the Russian economy is not stagnating, but developing. The bad news, however, is that, firstly, this flow is too large: since 2009 it has grown by almost 40%. And secondly, what comes to us are not specialists, but as a rule, just good guys.
– Sometimes, as events in the same Biryulyovo show, not very good ones.
– I agree. But the absolute majority are still set on working, not breaking the law. Nevertheless, even a very good person is not a profession. Despite their lack of qualification, these people for some reason are sure that they will be welcomed with open arms, and accordingly, they flood into Russia. Even without knowing the Russian language. Of course, this is a challenge. But we cannot respond to it by closing borders, since Russia's policy is aimed not at breaking ties, but at strengthening relations with CIS countries. We created the EurAsEC, the Customs Union, and are creating the Single Economic Space. Introducing a visa regime would contradict our efforts in this direction.
– In other words, the visa-free regime is the price for our foreign policy ambitions?
– I would rather call it our foreign policy interests. Actually, no one makes a secret of it. Vladimir Putin, speaking last year at the board of the FMS, directly said that introducing visas is not advisable for political reasons. Otherwise we would push away the CIS countries. Do not expect me to add anything new. The FMS is responsible for migration policy; foreign policy issues are decided at a different level.
– That is understandable. Sometimes, by the way, there is a feeling that if it were up to you, you would solve these issues differently.
– No, I sincerely believe that fending ourselves off with borders and visas is not the solution. After all, in that case we must be prepared for the borders to close for us as well. Including, for example, with Ukraine, with which we have the closest, literally family ties. And with the other CIS neighbors we also have much in common. In short, as a result we will lose significantly more than we gain.
– Regarding Ukraine, it is hard to argue. But, for example, on the border with most prosperous Finland we have barbed wire and a control track strip, while with Tajikistan, from which the main flow of drugs comes, we have an 'open door' policy. Where is the logic?
– Firstly, Tajikistan is the same CIS member state as all the others. It is unacceptable to single it out and isolate it. As for Finland, that country is an EU member. We have long called on the European Union to abolish visas – you know the result. Agree that we cannot open the border unilaterally; this process can only be mutual.
– But asymmetry can also be found in relations between Russia and Tajikistan. According to the interstate agreement signed this year, the period for registering citizens of that country for migration registration is increased from 7 to 15 days. While Russians arriving in Tajikistan are required to do it within three days.
– Pay attention to what this agreement is called: 'On the Procedure of Stay of Citizens of the Republic of Tajikistan on the Territory of the Russian Federation'. This is the first document of its kind that says nothing about Russian citizens. The preferences are granted by us unilaterally.
– That is what is surprising.
– In doing so, we emphasize that we do not need such benefits from Tajikistan. We are not concerned with the registration periods established by their migration legislation, because practically none of the Russian citizens work there. The flow is one-way. We took this step at the insistent request of the Tajik side. It was motivated by the fact that Russia is a vast state and, if traveling, for example, by rail, it is not always possible to arrive at the destination within 7 days. But I assure you: this agreement will not affect the effectiveness of migration control in any way.
– Please share the latest statistics: who is currently banned from entering Russia, how many foreigners are in the country today? And what share, according to your data, are illegal immigrants?
– As of today, there are 11 million foreign citizens in the territory of Russia. As for, as you say, illegals, I would not use that expression.
– Well, then how many illegal migrants do we have?
– That is also an incorrect term. An illegal, or illegal migrant, in the literal sense of these words, is one who illegally crosses the state border. And all these 11 million entered on legal grounds.
– So who do your employees catch at markets and vegetable warehouses?
– I prefer a less flashy and catchy but more legally literate definition – violators of migration legislation. This category includes, first, foreign citizens who have exceeded the legally established periods of stay. For example, if we are talking about those who arrived visa-free, then without a residence permit or temporary residence permit, they can stay in Russia for no more than 90 days. And second, those who work without a corresponding permit or patent. In total, this year we have drawn up about 800 thousand protocols. Two thirds of them are for those who exceeded the time limits, the rest are those caught for illegal labor activities.
– I can't help but notice that your subordinates are bolder both in terms and in figures. For example, your first deputy Ekaterina Egorova estimates the “volume of illegal migration” at 3.5 million people.
– It happens that in the heat of conversation people choose their words poorly, sometimes that happens to my subordinates too. That's about terminology. Now as to where this figure came from. As I already said, today we have 11, more precisely, 11.1 million foreign citizens. 1.8 million people are those who have a work permit or patent. Some came to Russia for purposes not related to work – to receive medical treatment, study, visit relatives and friends, or as tourists. That leaves 3.6 million people whom we call the risk group.
Let's not deceive ourselves: most of these people, of course, also work somewhere. Naturally, illegally. There is every reason to believe that many of those who indicated private purposes are also engaged in illegal labor activities. After all, how do these people often reason? If I admit that I came to earn money, I will fall under increased control. But recently I gave an order: those who declare any other reasons for coming besides work will not receive either a work permit or a patent. That's it, enough playing humanitarians.
– What other innovations can we expect in the migration sphere?
– One fundamentally important change has already occurred. I mean sanctions against those who did not leave Russia in time. Let me clarify: to the 90 days determined by law for foreign citizens who arrived visa-free, we add another 30. This is a global practice: a person is given time to either legalize his stay or leave Russia on his own. Thus, the period is actually extended to 120 days. But if a person does not fit into these limits and leaves later, our information system automatically records this and he ends up on the stop list.
The same thing happens to those who have committed two offenses in a year or have not paid a fine. For the next three years, entry into Russia will be closed for them. This norm appeared in 2013, but has already proven its effectiveness. This can be judged by just the number of calls from various kinds of intercessors and advocates – both foreign and Russian – who ask us to take into account the situation of persons on the blacklist. Judging by this indicator, we hit a real sore spot. To make the scale of the 'disaster' clear: since the beginning of the year, entry into Russia has been closed for more than 390 thousand foreign citizens.
– Well, what if the violator still stays?
– In this case, he risks being detained and forcibly expelled from Russia. In this scenario, the entry ban period increases to 5 years. And if it is a repeated violation, up to 10. If during this period the violator attempts to enter the territory of Russia, a criminal case is opened against him. All this is also the result of recent amendments to the legislation.
Since the beginning of the year, more than 50 thousand foreign citizens have been expelled or deported from the country. Special institutions for holding migrants subject to expulsion have been created in 21 constituent entities of the Federation as of today, and in another 32 they will open by the end of the year. By the way, by April 1 they will be transferred to the jurisdiction of the FMS. It is clear that we cannot, unfortunately, catch all violators; we cannot assign our employee to every migrant.
But something else worries us much more. Every tenth immigrant from the CIS, after staying here 90 days, leaves for a very short period, literally one day, outside Russia and immediately returns. The goal is obvious: the stay period is reset. Acting in such a shuttle mode, a foreign citizen who does not have any permits can stay in Russia practically indefinitely. As you might guess, these 'tourists' do not come here for museum visits. This is one of the main sources feeding the illegal labor market.
But I hope we will soon cut off this channel too. Our proposal is as follows: a migrant should be able to use his right to a 90-day stay without permits no more than once every six months. That is, he stayed 90 days in Russia, left, waited three months, and only after that he gets the right to a new entry.
– How close is this idea to implementation?
– We have been heard: a few days ago, State Duma deputies introduced a corresponding bill. We hope for its quick consideration and adoption. In short, we are acting step by step. Another three or four such steps, and I assure you, order in this area will be restored.
– Without any visas?
– Without any visas. Especially since there is nowhere to put visas today: until January 1, 2015, citizens of neighboring countries enter Russia with their internal documents.
– Well, I remember when a visa regime with Georgia was introduced, they solved this problem very quickly.
– Wait, but we don't even have diplomatic relations with Georgia! You aren't calling for us to reach such a state with other CIS countries, are you?
– God forbid. But I'll share another doubt with you. Unfortunately, I have never been to America...
– I have.
– Then you know as well as I do what the US-Mexico border looks like. And despite this 'Great Wall,' the number of guests from the south who illegally entered the States is in the millions. So when you look at the Russia-Kazakhstan border blending into the landscape, the question inevitably arises: are legally entered migrants just the tip of the iceberg?
– The question is basically for the border service, but I can assure you that cases of illegal entry into Russian territory are isolated. About a hundred criminal cases are opened annually on this matter. For comparison: since the beginning of the year, almost 44 million border crossings into Russia through checkpoints have been recorded.
– Maybe they just don't catch all the illegals?
– Such a possibility cannot be ruled out, especially since 100% control is impossible here. But if the phenomenon were widespread, the ratio between the statistics of legal and illegal crossings would be different. And why take donkey trails if no visas are required and you can easily use a plane or train?
No, of course, if you think hypothetically, it is possible that after we started introducing such restrictions, the flow along the trails might increase somewhat. But it will not significantly affect the migration situation in any case.
– Can you name potential hot spots on the country's map regarding relations between locals and 'outsiders'?
– The most tense points are Moscow, the Moscow Region, St. Petersburg, and the Leningrad Region. That is, the regions with the fastest economic development, the greatest industrial potential, and the highest concentration of financial resources. As the saying goes, fish seek where it's deeper, and people seek where it's better. So this quartet accounts for more than a third of the migration flow and more than 50% of all problems in the migration sphere. Put things in order here, and everything else will seem like child's play.
– In January of this year, you were granted the rank of minister. Given this fact, as well as the growing scope of authority of the FMS and the scale of your plans, it is logical to assume that your agency will be upgraded to ministerial status. Doesn't your intuition tell you otherwise?
– It does. Absolutely. There are no such plans.