Flags of the Czech Republic and Ukraine
About this and more – in an interview with Bohdan Raychynets, who represents Ukrainians on the Committee for National Minorities under the Czech government.
– Bohdan, tell us about yourself.
– I was born in Prague. My mother is Ukrainian, born in the Czech Republic, and my father came from Transcarpathia in the sixties. Their parents are also Ukrainians. And great-grandparents. They were all part of Ukrainian culture, its history, identity. After the Velvet Revolution of 1989, I began to understand that an independent Ukrainian community has existed in the Czech Republic for quite a long time, with common cultural and language interests, and I gradually became accustomed to it. I have been traveling to Ukraine since infancy. Growing up, I also studied there. I started making friends and communicating with Ukrainians who began to come here after 1990 for work or later decided to spend their lives here, in the Czech Republic.
– Do Ukrainians perceive you as one of them? You were born here. On one hand you are Ukrainian, on the other – not quite.
– A very good question, I am often asked it. I think Ukrainians are very united, regardless of where they were born – in Ukraine, the Czech Republic, or America. This question is also complicated because the Ukrainian diaspora in emigration has a very long history, about 100 years, which is already a serious term. Therefore, understanding who is Ukrainian and who is not comes very quickly: if you were raised in the Ukrainian spirit, in the Ukrainian language, and at the same time you understand that you can help the Ukrainian state, even a little, then finding mutual understanding between the previous and current generations is not a problem at all. But I represent the Ukrainian diaspora under the Czech government not because I wanted to formalize my status. I work on a voluntary basis. I cannot say that I am a person specially chosen and representing the interests of all Ukrainians living in the Czech Republic. That is not the case. I just want to defend certain principles and foundations that could help the Ukrainian community living in the Czech Republic, and maybe also those in Ukraine.
State Secretary of the Czech Republic for European Union Affairs Tomáš Prouza: "For us, Ukrainians are already a natural, full-fledged part of Czech society. Ukrainians who come to the Czech Republic integrate without problems, nobody protests against them."
– Who is part of the Ukrainian diaspora for you? People with Czech citizenship, permanent residence, residence permit?
– Our community is changing, it is alive and has existed for 20 years, like the Russian one. These are people who were born here or who arrived as children and have Czech citizenship. But we know that such a diaspora would not survive long. Integration is inevitable, and subsequent generations already consider themselves Czechs to a greater extent and even do not speak their native languages. It happens that people who have lived here for 15-20 years, sometimes without realizing it, begin to create the foundation of a new diaspora. Thus, this diaspora is constantly replenished.
– And what about those who just came here to work – are they part of the Ukrainian diaspora?
– It seems to me that if these people are not an active part of the Ukrainian community, do not participate in public life, then they do not want to consider themselves a diaspora. Because in reality they want to return to Ukraine, and the issues of Ukrainians' lives in the Czech Republic do not concern them much. That is understandable. They are only interested in the opportunity to earn money and go back to their homeland. Despite the fact that we ourselves do not divide Ukrainians by any criteria, it is absolutely obvious that such people have different priorities – to survive, earn money, feed their families.
– After the Maidan, the annexation of Crimea, the war that began, the Russian diaspora in the Czech Republic split. The sentiments in it are about the same as among Russians in Russia. The majority are for Putin, the rest are not. Does a similar split exist in the Ukrainian diaspora?
– I have practically not encountered this. It is clear that there are Russian-speaking Ukrainians and Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians. But it can be said that on the contrary – the Ukrainian community in the Czech Republic has become even more united. When a military conflict is happening in the country and there is a threat not only to the integrity but also to the independence of the state, all diasporas, and I am not only talking about Ukraine, begin to unite and work for the benefit of the homeland. Any threat to the country unites members of the diaspora.
– What are the main problems of the Ukrainian diaspora living in the Czech Republic?
– It is necessary that the majority of Ukrainians realize that their children will live here, that they have nothing to fear, that they should remain proud, self-aware, but at the same time support the cultural demands of the Czech Republic. When such understanding becomes universal – it will be a big step forward. And then the entire Ukrainian diaspora, which has lived here since the time of Masaryk, even taking into account the pause that ended in the nineties, will be able to become a worthy part of Czech society, will be able to enrich the unique ethnic environment of the Czech Republic. Without complexes, without aggression, in the best Ukrainian traditions.
– The Czech Republic cannot abolish visas for Ukraine, as it is a matter of the Schengen Agreement countries. But the Czech Republic can take some steps towards Ukraine. Open new consulates or improve the work of existing ones, student exchanges, easier visa issuance conditions, and so on. Do you have any grievance towards the Czech Republic that it does not meet Ukraine halfway? Can the Czech authorities do something?
– They can, but that’s a question for the Czech Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of the Interior. I believe that the Czech Republic will support the influx of Ukrainian students and further programs will be created for this. This process, according to the European Union, indicates the democratization of society, when students are brought in and shown how well people live in a particular European country, how democratic processes are applied. I know such programs, for example, from the same organization “People in Need,” when specialists from Ukraine were brought to the Czech Republic and taught advanced management technologies and the principles of the non-profit sector. This direction seems to me the most promising.
– There is a common belief that Russian propaganda has begun to strongly influence Ukrainians living here. Many are starting to sincerely believe it and reason: “Maybe it wasn’t worth going to Europe, maybe it was worth staying in the past and being with Russia?” Do you believe that this propaganda is actually beginning to affect Czech Ukrainians?
– I think so. Propaganda is propaganda. It is quite successful. You know yourself, if a conflict lasts more than a year, two, ten years, then focus on specific things is lost. There remains a general information background. Another result of propaganda is the desire of some people to give up on everything. This is the main success of any propaganda, including Russian. I have met some such people; the problem is that propaganda affects not only Ukrainians, but also everyone who is in principle interested in Ukrainian issues. This is a very interesting but sad psychological process. You witnessed events, you saw and felt everything yourself, and after some time you become disillusioned with what you saw and knew. All this is the influence of propaganda. You stop believing that everything you did before was right. These are complex phenomena, not only in Russian-Ukrainian relations.
– I am Russian, but I am often ashamed of many compatriots who either live in the Czech Republic or come here as tourists. Terrible behavior, frightening imperial thinking... Or the fact that Russian business in the Czech Republic is often built on the principle of “the main thing is to deceive your own.” And do you ever feel ashamed for Ukrainians?
– In this, I support you. I am also ashamed when they show the worst of society – drinking, bad behavior. This was more so in the nineties. But it is disappearing, thank God. Cases where people portray Ukraine in the worst light are fading away. The atmosphere in business has also improved. There is a process of some kind of “weeding out.” When we see Russian guys behaving inadequately, we must understand that there are the same guys from England, Sweden, and so on. I don't know all the problems within the Russian community; I can only judge by the Ukrainian one. Ukrainians increasingly understand that they need to behave culturally, that they are judged for the entire state of Ukraine, and that dignified behavior gives the Czechs the opportunity to perceive Ukraine and Ukrainians as those who have a chance to become a normal nation and country.
Kirill Shchelkov,
editor of Radio Prague.